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Forum:Unrealism, as unreal as you think?
Well, my article was just tagged as unrealistic, for reason that were of course obvious, so i fixed it, however, i looked at what this wiki considers unrealistc, and one of them is the use of hand held magnetic accelerator weapons. i find this to be completely realistic and so does Bungie, hence the use of the M99 Stachion rifle which is a guass sniper rifel, used in the book written by Joseph Staten, Contact Harvest. that is it, --Colonel William And? ...And your point is? if we don't come down hard on godmodders or unrealistic articles, they get worse and worse. If handheld magnetic accelerator weapons were allowed, we'd have a bunch of assault rifles and pistols that could punch through any armor, making any force using them pretty much invincible (godmodding) Actene 11:49, 18 October 2008 (UTC) Well to be honest i have made a portable rail gun weapon that is hand held, but of coarse it is a exspensive weapon. You can make handheld Mac and Rail gun weapons but you have to make them hard to use and exspensive.Eaite'Oodat 12:54, 18 October 2008 (UTC) :Not quite (Price is one thing... but explanation is the one that matters... ). You should always explain how the weapons works and how it can be used by a regular Marine/Soldier. That way, it gives the readers a clearer description of its operation, making it more realistic and understandable. I would recommend avoid making such articles as explaining them out is a hard work. Just go with the simpler weapons like Combat Knife or Handgun. KAC- 13:21, 18 October 2008 (UTC) good counter argument subtank, but my rail gun does explain how it works and fires, but i do think a portable guass weapons is heavy, expensive and very difficult to use. Thus weapons of that catagory should say something along those lines.Eaite'Oodat 19:51, 20 October 2008 (UTC) Overall Problem Now i know this is an issue, and you're right in stating that the page is wrong. I was going to make the Unrealism help page just liek i did with the GM help page. I've just been really busy. But when i do it properly, i'll make sure that i define unrealistic properly. This is another new policy and so there are going to be snags but it will work in the long term. Sorry for any confusion. Regards, Sorting through the crap Your article was tagged as unrealistic because of the reasons mentioned on the talk page. Its unbelievable and a immature piece of work, so i attempted to help you improve the faults in it. As for the detail on the gauss rifle, it means a weapon the size of a MA5 rifle, not the M99 Stanchion, which is quite frankly huge. And how little i care Ajax Ajax Ajax, this forum post had nothing to do with my article, it had to do with the unrealism of a handheld gauss weapon. the M99 is not huge, i've seen a picture in the back of the Halo Graphic novel of Sgt. Johnson using it. but, as for the thing i have put up, even if they were bad as a first that gave you no right to be an open and straight forward ASS about it. most of the users i have come across are at least polite, but not you. so as i must, your character Ajax is at first unrealistic as well. an ultra human? that is god modding at its best right there. and the SPARTANS would not have a sociopathic person among their ranks. so before you begin spouting about how unrealistic others articles are, maybe you should go back and review your own, with all do respect. most of your articles i have read are unrealistic and unbelievable. i rally don't care if i get kicked off after saying this, then at least i'll be free from halo nazis like yourself. M99 is almost 2 meters long and weighs 20kg, that makes modern anti material rifles look like children's toys and trust me, those things are already heavy enough. As for critizing your article, I've made a accruate estimation of your writing style, if I'm a 'ass' for being truthful and honest, then I'm most certainly a 'ass'. As for Ajax being god modded, first read why he is so awesomely strong, as for the Sociopathic tendencies, every SPARTAN is sociopathic to some degree, his is just alot more severe. Besides, theres SPARTANS who are emotionally fragile, chronically anti social and affected by a deep festering guilt. They weren't thrown out of the program, heck, two of them got promoted to officers ;]. I'd like to think that rifle-sized gauss weaponry wasn't unrealistic. Given the right amount of technology, funds, and materials, it could eventually be accomplished (although I don't think it'd ever be able to be fired in automatic). As per insulting Ajax, all he's done is given points for improvement; poking fun at him won't do you any good, given that he is a respectable and functioning Administrator on this site. Wait, have we just been called nazi's...again?! Note to Self: Must stop killing Jews, AKA my ancestors. :Wait... Ajax is Irish/English/German?!! :P KAC- 13:41, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :Yes, Ajax is the metaphorical fruit salad of Halofanon. Pips and seeds from every fruit -- :no i just called Ajax a halo fanon nazi. not the rest of you. A side note here, since it seems no one properly interpreted this. Ajax said Jews, also known as his ancestors. That being said, while he may be German, he is also Jewish was his point. Calling him a Nazi would be make him a Jewish Nazi, which makes no sense and contradicts itself. I think Ajax wanted the term Nazi to stop being thrown around so much, since that was a serious time and the downplaying of the term for use in instances like this, where a user is upset because an admin did what he is expected by the community to do, could be insulting to people who understand the true meaning of the term. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 21:23, 24 October 2008 (UTC) you do know that hitlers mother was jewish right? A quick fact check on this absurd urban legend reveals otherwise. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 23:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC) Multiple reasons There are multiple reasons for not being able to have a hand held MAC. 1/ The recoil from such a weapon would be phenomenal, the force of the magnetic coils thrusting the projectile forward would likely create such an intense backlash that any pistol would go flying out of the soldiers hand, and a battle rifle would jut up and smack the fellow in the face. For every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction. 2/ There's a reason that MAC guns have primarily been used in ships and large structures; the amount of time, money and energy, not to mention the technological achievement it would take to compress down components required for a MAC rifle are somewhat interesting to comprehend by the observations made upon human technology in the Halo universe. The books I find are a tad unreliable on specifics and sometimes add or miss things, since the writers are not original creators from Bungie. 3/ Do you realize how big the weapon would have to be in order to fit the barrel, the magnetic coils, ammunition that could take the velocity of such a weapon without disintegrating near immediately after leaving the barrel, and how big the weapon would have to be to withstand the sheer force of such a ballistic firarm? 4/ The heat generated from such a weapon in something as small as a pistol or rifle would render it unstable and likely too hot for a soldier to hold after just a few shots. Even if you cut down how many shots it could fire in order to allow it to cool down appropriately, it would only allow 1 shot ever minute or something ridiculous like that. It'd just be a more precise, and more powerful musket with a shinier chassis. 5/ Just look at the big picture, a MAC gun pistol? It's like having the power of several sniper rifles, combined into one and having the ability to run into battle and hold it up to someone's head, weapons like that could send body parts flying 50 metres, a pistol could have the ability to neutralize a tank, I can hardly imagine someone taking out a hand gun and shooting down a banshee out of the sky or taking down a Wraith. It's just generally unrealistic -- Read above dude There already is a handheld coil gun. its called an M99 stanchion rifle. used in halo contact harvest, the book. it already exist. secondly there is no recoil from megnetics moving objets forward since recoil in normal guns is cuase by the explosive gasses propelling a bullet. no recoil in magnetic weapons. you can argue with me, but i really don't care since i'm in college and studiying this sort of thing. You know, I would argue with you, and despite the fact that you say you're in college, and studying such things, which to be quite frank I find heavily unlikely, I have lost the urge to argue specifically with you, because of all the people I have spoken to or seen around htis website, I can honestly say you are the most conceited and arrogant of them all. As such I do not desire to converse with you any longer, and I wish you a pleasant, and particularly short life. I will correct you however on one thing; every action, has an equal and opposite reaction, the MAC guns do have a recoil effect, most aren't seen because the ones seen on ships and space stations because of the propulsion of the ships engines acting heavily against it, and the gyro-synchronization stabilizers on the Super-MAC stations. -- The end Click Me And to finally finish it off, it does not make todays anti matieral rifles lok like childs toys Ajax. a Barrett M82A1 Weighs 13 kg and is 1450mm long. that is pretty damn close to M99 so in terms your wrong. : Next time, just link the article to HaloFanon. Also sign your comments.KAC- 15:19, 21 October 2008 (UTC) :I find your lack of grasp on reality disturbing. For a weapon you have to cary around all day, 13 kilograms, never mind 20kilograms, is heavy. The Barret weighs as much as around about four fully loaded M4 Carbines, with the M99 Stanchion weighing the same as around about 7 M4 Carbines. I'd like to see you lunk 7 of them around in one day. Besides, your not listening, whats been said is, a Gauss weapon isn't possible on small scale, it is however possible in the format of a utterly huge sniper rifle. And as a note in interesting, 1450mm does not = 1750mm and 20kilogram does not = 13kilogram. Its a weight difference of like... a slightly on the small side dog, I think thats a noticeable difference in weight. :To be quite frank Ajax, and I do hope you'll excuse the interruption, however to be entirely honest I find that this human in particular is just too stubborn to accept that the point being made from his point of view is basically defunct. To sum it up, he is unwilling to accept that generally speaking, a magnetically accelerated munition from anything smaller than the exceptionally large and heavy M99 sniper rifle, is guaranteed to be physically impractical. The sniper rifle itself is going a little far, however as it is canon it may not be disputed, but pistols and basic rifles? :No one here, not you, Subtank, or anyone else has been as outright stubborn, arrogant, self righteous, and unwilling to admit obvious defeat, as this fellow before you -- okay think about this for a moment, a pistol is used for what? close combat. do you really think it would be logical (or possible) to use a MAC to fire something at close range? 1 what if a round missed, if i read correctly the M99 had ripped through an office building before blowing its victim to pieces, if a single round missed could you image the collateral damage or the high risk of injuring a noncombatant. or if it did hit at close range couldyou imagine the clean up detail you'd have to pull? 2 price, weapons aint cheap (unless your the soviet union) the UNSC were willing to provide the funds for the M99 because its for special operations and isnt handed out up the ying yang, why pay probably even more for a pistol? 3 whats the point? the M6D proved to be an extremely effective sidearm, so why pay extra for something you dont need? thats why the US military ended the comanche helicopter program, they simply didnt need it so why pay. Hollywood I agree with hollywood, why pay for something when you already have effective and useful weaponry. Also, they ended Commanche? i thought they were the coolest things i'd ever seen :( The Stanchion Rifle is the smallest (if you can even call it small) magnetic accelerating weapon in the UNSC arsenal, that is physically acceptable to exist, in the HCW Era. Please read carefully about any smaller magnetic accelerating weapon: THEY ARE NCF, UNREALISTIC AND GM Here it is again in case you didn't catch it that time: THEY ARE NCF, UNREALISTIC AND GM Ok, i think that this is clear now. Conclusion Based upon the observations made upon the general statements made here by fellow users of this site, and by its administrators, I believe it to be the consensus of the site as a whole that this debate be declared over. By popular majority, on the subject of MAC technology used in anything smaller than the M99 Sniper rifle; None Canon Friendly. On the subject of developing hand guns, auto/semi-auto/basic rifles of medium, light, or below the weight classification of the M99; None Canon Friendly. -- What If What if someone makes a Infantry MAC weapon that is used against vehicles would that be a good example of how to make them. Thats just the M68 >.> Wow Why must people seem to belive that i am taling about making a MAC weapon smaller than a stanchion. i was making the point that a handheld MAC infantry weapon was not only possible but already done. i never said make a mac MA5 rifle. I know the M99 is the only canon friendly weapon as i was the one who mentioned the M99 first. i never called to have a freaking MAC pistol. And yes this argument is over since no one seems to listen and everyone wants to repeat the same thing i have said at the start of this article. -Colonel William- because the way you worded things put the impression that you were talking about an MAC that is smaller in size than the M99. when ppl hear handheld they usually think of a rifle to pistol size weapon. that impression was deepened when you continued the arguement =\. everyone has agreed that MAC is possible but at it's smallest form it's the Stanchion, anything bigger or similair size wouldnt be thought of as the NCF. yes the commanche project was canceled in 04, for basic reasons as, if it aint broke (refering to the apache) why fix it...or pay for it Hollywood Yes but they keep saying otherwise after i make it clear that all i'm talking about was the stanchion several times up there. User:Colonel William BTW, Colonal William, your sig has a preview box around it, so i think you may have messed up some of the code. Just saying. The Real Issue The issue at hand, William, is that you are trying to make the point that we don't allow rail guns of the size and stature of the M99 in an attempt to discredit the unrealism template to justify your article, when we have made it pretty clear that we do allow rail guns of the size and stature of the M99, but nothing smaller than that. Now, since we're done with that little tangent, how about trying to, I don't know, respond to the points made against your article in its talk page rather than trying to discredit an entire website with technicalities that only exist in your mind? I'm sure if you tried working with those who had issues with your article, which I have read and found was not particularly bad, but definitely needed work in the realism aspect, then you would probably find that the forum is generally not as hostile as you have just experienced. I would also suggest that you drop the attitude. Being in college, even in college level physics, does not mean you know everything. I certainly don't. Please refrain from trying to use your age or level of education in an attempt to make yourself look better than other members of this site, because in reality, at the end of the day, maturity is the only thing that anyone really cares about, and maturity does not care how old or educated you are. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 21:20, 24 October 2008 (UTC) This had nothing to do with my article in any way. like i said up at the top the reasons for unrealism in my article ere obvious, and i fixed it. i mentioned my article becuase its from there that i got to the unrealism place. you and most of the others, seem to not want to lisen to anyhting at all. this had nothing to do to the unrealism in my article,i was making a point that perhaps the unrealism template should be slightly changed to be a little more canon friendly. User:Colonel William Your article still needs work. We'll take conversation of this to the talk page, however. Oh, also, could you either go to your preferences and remove that space in your signature, or simply stop placing it (depending on whether or not it is hard coded), because as you can see, it boxes your signature, and for those of us still using Quartz Gaming, your signature becomes very hard to read. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 23:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC) I say agian, wow Aon the subject of small hand held coil gun. it can be made in your basement with a 300 volt capacitor from a disposable camera. it is actually extremely easy to build a pistol sized coile gun that gives off a considerable amount of force. and for the record there is a diffrence between rail guns and coil guns. a MAC gun is a coil gun. i'm not saying its practical, but it can be made today with todays technology. and yes, i am stubborn wether i'm right or not, which at this point i am. And tell me, this coilgun made from a disposable camera, how effective is it? What is the muzzle velocity? I imagine pretty low, since with a barrel that short and ammunition that small, saturation, rate of loss of saturation, and electric resistance are high. We aren't saying that making a coilgun of that size is impossible, but making one effective enough for the UNSC to employ as an actual weapon, well, that's got to be pretty damned hard. Otherwise, weapons of that type would dominate the UNSC Marine Corps rather than standard chemical-based projectile weapons such as the MA series of assault rifles and basically all other hand-held weapons with exception of the M99 and M6 that the UNSC uses. When push comes to shove, a coilgun any smaller than the M99 can't be effective, and thus wouldn't be employed as a weapon. The M99 itself appears to have been a special purpose rifle only, likely due to extreme length and weight, but also because with the exception of having to hit a target from a Hornet through a building, regular sniper rifles get the job done just as well for a quarter of the cost to build and an eighth the cost to maintain. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 23:02, 24 October 2008 (UTC) I suggest we drop the subject, you know, to avoid bannings and such. -- The State(Decrees and Law)( ) 00:10, 25 October 2008 (UTC) I suggest we stop, on the grounds that some of us are making things up, and htat is less than helpful in a situation such as this one -- okay even if it does work and all you're still missing something, whats the point? yes railguns are possible but the US military doesnt expand on it because they dont need one, standard weapons already reign supreme so why would you pay for something you dont need, not including the extra training you'd need. it simply isnt practical. Hollywood Ok misanthrope, think i'm making it up? here, read this. "Many hobbyists use low-cost rudimentary designs to experiment with coilguns, for example using photoflash capacitors from a disposable camera, or a capacitor from a standard cathode-ray tube television as the energy source, and a low inductance coil to propel the projectile forward." this is from wikipedia, you should go there and look up "Coil gun" Could you just drop it? It annoys me to have this issue repeated throughout the entire week if not month. KAC- 14:38, 25 October 2008 (UTC) :Give him a formal warning then, or something, so he'll shutup about it. Problem solved :) I'm thinking of protecting the page so only Administrators can edit. :) -- The State(Decrees and Law)( ) 16:05, 25 October 2008 (UTC) As long as this pointless argument stops then i'm happy. William, I didn't say it wasn't possible, I said it wasn't realistic. I didn't question possibility, I questioned efficiency. You complete ignored the points I raised, instead assuming I was denying such coilguns exist, which I was not. I was denying that a coilgun made from a camera, or simply a coilgun of that small size, would be unable to pack a lethal or even semi-lethal punch due to the constraints that keep modern technology from manufacturing an efficient coilgun of any size that is worth spending the money on. Furthermore, I find it worrisome that your posts are becoming more desperate and more hostile in general. And I apologize to the rest of you that I did not simply drop this, but I could not just let such a misinformed post such as this just slip by. Besides, William is entitled to his opinion, and as long as he and other participants keeps their tongues in check, I don't see any problem with this discussion. :--'Master Gunnery Sergeant Hank J Wimbleton IVCOM' 07:54, 28 October 2008 (UTC)